Get the Location using LoPy



  • Hi all.

    Since LoRa specification support (class dependent) the location, the LoPy support that? I mean, not using GPS, but just using LoRa location feature.

    Thanks.



  • @jmarcelino said in Get the Location using LoPy:

    @beyonlo
    The NetID has several implications, for example it becomes part of the assigned device addresses (devaddr, not EUIs) which gateways can then filter on amongst other details. It's a complex subject, I recommend reading the LoRaWAN specification and the NetID allocation policy: https://www.scribd.com/document/317164891/20160603-NetID-Alloc-Policy-Application-1178-1

    "3rd party" means if you're running a network that will accept devices from users outside your company and/or devices made by other companies (namely LoRaWAN Certified devices)

    If you're running a private network just for your application using your own devices then you shouldn't need your own NetID.

    Again owning a NetID shouldn't have anything to do with LoRa geolocation, I mentioned it because this sort of access usually only makes sense (economically) for very large deployments but I suggest that you contact Semtech sales and enquire about it (and let us know if you can!)

    Follow the link at the bottom at https://www.semtech.com/wireless-rf/lora-geolocation to obtain your contact.

    Thank you :)



  • @beyonlo
    The NetID has several implications, for example it becomes part of the assigned device addresses (devaddr, not EUIs) which gateways can then filter on amongst other details. It's a complex subject, I recommend reading the LoRaWAN specification and the NetID allocation policy: https://www.scribd.com/document/317164891/20160603-NetID-Alloc-Policy-Application-1178-1

    "3rd party" means if you're running a network that will accept devices from users outside your company and/or devices made by other companies (namely LoRaWAN Certified devices)

    If you're running a private network just for your application using your own devices then you shouldn't need your own NetID.

    Again owning a NetID shouldn't have anything to do with LoRa geolocation, I mentioned it because this sort of access usually only makes sense (economically) for very large deployments but I suggest that you contact Semtech sales and enquire about it (and let us know if you can!)

    Follow the link at the bottom at https://www.semtech.com/wireless-rf/lora-geolocation to obtain your contact.



  • @jmarcelino said in Get the Location using LoPy:

    I didn't mention it originally as you specifically said LoRa but you can do do some "cheap" geolocation scanning for the hardware addresses/signal strength of nearby WiFi access points with the LoPy and then looking it up using of the public WiFi databases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_positioning_system#Public_Wi-Fi_location_databases

    It's relatively easy to do and works well in urban environments (but of course won't work for remote locations where there's no wifi anywhere around)

    Hello.

    Yes, but I'm interested at agriculture environment.

    1. You told me that I need a NET ID for a Open Network. But If I will to create a Private LoRaWAN Network, I still need a NET ID? I would like geolocation in that Private Network.
    2. "
      Open Network: A network that offers open connectivity services, i.e., the network operator provides subscription plans for 3rd party users to connect their 3rd party devices to the network
      "
      I really not understand what is the technical differences between a Open Network and a Private Network.
      What means that "3rd party"?

    Thank you.



  • I didn't mention it originally as you specifically said LoRa but you can do do some "cheap" geolocation scanning for the hardware addresses/signal strength of nearby WiFi access points with the LoPy and then looking it up using of the public WiFi databases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_positioning_system#Public_Wi-Fi_location_databases

    It's relatively easy to do and works well in urban environments (but of course won't work for remote locations where there's no wifi anywhere around)



  • @beyonlo

    You need a NetId if you operate an "open" LoRaWAN network or collaborate (i.e. allow users to/from) with one.

    The alliance describes an open network as:

    Open Network: A network that offers open connectivity services, i.e., the network operator provides subscription plans for 3rd party users to connect their 3rd party devices to the network.

    I only mentioned in the context of geolocation because I suspect the Alliance won't even reply to a request about geolocation services from anyone who isn't a network operator.



  • @jmarcelino said in Get the Location using LoPy:

    @beyonlo said in Get the Location using LoPy:

    Do you have idea how much (more or less) is/will be that high-end GW?

    It's not just the high end gateways - of which you need a minimum of 3 - it's also the commercial license from Semtech to decrypt the geolocation data from them and then you still need access to a location solver algorithm for that data.

    This is a very expensive option (5 or even 6 figures?) so only viable for network operators.

    Just to get your foot in the door (ie. have your own LoRaWAN Network ID) you need to be Contributor member of the LoRa Alliance ($20000/year)

    1. Why is necessary (what are the advantages) to have a LoRaWAN Network ID? Just for geolocation feature, or what?
    2. Can I to construct a commercial LoRaWAN myself pay nothing to LoRa Alliance and without LoRaWAN Network ID?

    Thank you.



  • @beyonlo said in Get the Location using LoPy:

    Do you have idea how much (more or less) is/will be that high-end GW?

    It's not just the high end gateways - of which you need a minimum of 3 - it's also the commercial license from Semtech to decrypt the geolocation data from them and then you still need access to a location solver algorithm for that data.

    This is a very expensive option (5 or even 6 figures?) so only viable for network operators.

    Just to get your foot in the door (ie. have your own LoRaWAN Network ID) you need to be Contributor member of the LoRa Alliance ($20000/year)



  • @bmarkus said in Get the Location using LoPy:

    @beyonlo said in Get the Location using LoPy:

    @bmarkus said in Get the Location using LoPy:

    @beyonlo said in Get the Location using LoPy:

    Since LoRa specification support (class dependent) the location, the LoPy support that? I mean, not using GPS, but just using LoRa location feature.

    Which specification you mean? In which paragraph?

    http://www.cnx-software.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Comparison-Sigfox-Lora-GSM-NB-IoT-LTE-Cat-M1-RPMA.png

    Sorry, but it is not a specification just another buggy unusable misleading comparison table of LPWAN technologies like one was discussed few days ago. Forget this table!

    There is nothing about geolocation in the LoRaWAN specification. What is happening is that Semtech has a new chipset for Gateways which has geolocation feature. This chipset will be used by high-end GW vendors, like Kerlink in their iBTS (V2) gateways. Next generation of Network Servers or Geolocation Servers will use these new gateways for positioning of LoRaWAN devices. It will work for ANY devices, there is nothing extra in the device itself.

    Back to your question, such service will work for LoPy as any other LoRaWAN device once such geolocation service will be available by your LoRaWAN service provider.

    Thank you to clarify.

    Do you have idea how much (more or less) is/will be that high-end GW?



  • @beyonlo said in Get the Location using LoPy:

    @bmarkus said in Get the Location using LoPy:

    @beyonlo said in Get the Location using LoPy:

    Since LoRa specification support (class dependent) the location, the LoPy support that? I mean, not using GPS, but just using LoRa location feature.

    Which specification you mean? In which paragraph?

    http://www.cnx-software.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Comparison-Sigfox-Lora-GSM-NB-IoT-LTE-Cat-M1-RPMA.png

    Sorry, but it is not a specification just another buggy unusable misleading comparison table of LPWAN technologies like one was discussed few days ago. Forget this table!

    There is nothing about geolocation in the LoRaWAN specification. What is happening is that Semtech has a new chipset for Gateways which has geolocation feature. This chipset will be used by high-end GW vendors, like Kerlink in their iBTS (V2) gateways. Next generation of Network Servers or Geolocation Servers will use these new gateways for positioning of LoRaWAN devices. It will work for ANY devices, there is nothing extra in the device itself.

    Back to your question, such service will work for LoPy as any other LoRaWAN device once such geolocation service will be available by your LoRaWAN service provider.



  • @bmarkus said in Get the Location using LoPy:

    @beyonlo said in Get the Location using LoPy:

    Since LoRa specification support (class dependent) the location, the LoPy support that? I mean, not using GPS, but just using LoRa location feature.

    Which specification you mean? In which paragraph?

    http://www.cnx-software.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Comparison-Sigfox-Lora-GSM-NB-IoT-LTE-Cat-M1-RPMA.png



  • @beyonlo said in Get the Location using LoPy:

    Since LoRa specification support (class dependent) the location, the LoPy support that? I mean, not using GPS, but just using LoRa location feature.

    Which specification you mean? In which paragraph?


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