LoPy as LoRaWAN Basestation?

[mariusmm]

Hi,

it is possible to set LoPY to work as a LoRaWAN basestation?

In the documentation I can read about using LoPy as a end-device, but not as basestation

thanks

Màrius

[Batilan]

Let's first concentrate on getting it working as a basic LoRaWAN node before moving on to have it function as a LoRaWAN gateway :-)

[Xykon]

To be fair this was the main reason I wanted the Lopy:

I also got the Sodaq One on Kickstarter which is a LoRa based GPS tracker. I was hoping to use the LoPy as a Gateway to implement real time GPS tracking around our local Golf course.

We will provide the Python library needed to make the LoPy operate as a nano gateway and let you run your own private (or not, share it with your friends!) network.

We will supply more information about how to get the LoPy working as a nano gateway before the shipments in August 2016.

[mariusmm]

@Xykon said in LoPy as LoRaWAN Basestation?:

To be fair this was the main reason I wanted the Lopy:

I agree with you, using LoPy as a Nano Gateway as my main reason too.

So any news on that?

[daniel]

it is possible to set LoPY to work as a LoRaWAN basestation?

Yes, it s possible, but as being a nano-gateway the LoPy can only listen on 1 channel at a time, so there are some constraints. We already had this working with the LoPy beta prototypes and was used as a proof of concept by one of the beta testers.

We first want to sort out all the issues around basic LoRaWAN and the firmware updates. Then we'll provide the API and the examples for the nano-gateway.

Thank you for your patience and support.

Cheers,
Daniel

[bmarkus]

LoRaWAN gateways must provide a certain set of channels, depending on region and optionally may provide additional operational channels. End devices choosing channel to send data randomly which means many of the packets will be lost.

Devices like LoPy and others are usign the Semtech SX127x modems while gateways SX13xx. SX127x can detect only one signal at the same time with one fixed spreading factor, while SX13xx detect several signals at the same time with different SF. Additionally, RF performance is different.

It means, that you can't build a LoRaWAN standard compliant gateway with SX127x devices. Also you may not be able to configure a LoRaWAN compliant device's LoRaWAN stack to use single frequency,

Of course you can build a LoRa network with SX127x only hacking protocol and accepting poor RF and capacity performance, but it is not LoRaWAN anymore.

[mariusmm]

Thank you @daniel, I'm sure lot of people are willing to use the LoPy as a tiny basestation. Do you have some schedule on this release?

@bmarkus I'm aware of this limitaitons, but using a SX127X can still make a simple usable basestation.

Thank you all!

[remcohn]

when using OTAA activation, its actually the network core server that configures the node and tells is what speed (spreadfactor) and frequency(s) to use. in a regular TheThingsNetwork (TTN) setup, its the servers of TTN doing that. so it will 'never' be possible to have a nanogateway on TTN. but if you run your own network server (or have one in python), its technicly no problem to configure a node to only use 1 frequency.

[beyonlo]

Hello.

Yes, it s possible, but as being a nano-gateway the LoPy can only listen on 1 channel at a time, so there are some constraints.

What means "can only listen on 1 channel at the time"? and what are the "constraints"?

Thank you.

[beyonlo]

@beyonlo
Anyone?

[beyonlo]

@beyonlo said in LoPy as LoRaWAN Basestation?:

Hello.

Yes, it s possible, but as being a nano-gateway the LoPy can only listen on 1 channel at a time, so there are some constraints.

What means "can only listen on 1 channel at the time"? and what are the "constraints"?

Thank you.

Anyone?

[remcohn]

*) it will not be able to function as a gateway for TheThingsNetwork
*) you need a fair amount of software to handle the tasks that TTN normally does for you (OTAA registration etc)
*) it will be able to handle less nodes as it only has 1 frequency instead of 8

and may be some other things i missed :)

[beyonlo]

@remcohn said in LoPy as LoRaWAN Basestation?:

*) it will not be able to function as a gateway for TheThingsNetwork
*) you need a fair amount of software to handle the tasks that TTN normally does for you (OTAA registration etc)
*) it will be able to handle less nodes as it only has 1 frequency instead of 8

and may be some other things i missed :)

But my main reason to get the LoPy is just to be a gateway - a gateway for TheThingsNetwork. Apart client mode, my intention with LoPy is a full LoRa gateway. I would like to construct a large, very large LoRa network to offer the LoRa network service for all, in many cities and states, and after in all the country. I'm so sad. :(

"
And what if you could build your own LoRa network?
Here is the clever part, you can use the module to switch a comms signal from WiFi to LoRa (and vice versa) thus making the LoPy both a LoRa Receiver / Transmitter and a Nano gateway capable of handling comms with up to 100 other LoRa nodes!
"

[KDHeard]

@daniel said in LoPy as LoRaWAN Basestation?:

We first want to sort out all the issues around basic LoRaWAN and the firmware updates

Hey Daniel - could you share the timeline for when the API will be ready for the nano-gateway?

Kind regards
Kevin

[bioagbob]

@daniel Same question here. What's the time frame for nano-gateway documentation?
Roberto posted some demo code, but that's far from complete. Does Pycom plan to support the 100-node, 22km nano gateway featured in the KS?
Thanks!

[beyonlo]

@bioagbob said in LoPy as LoRaWAN Basestation?:

@daniel Same question here. What's the time frame for nano-gateway documentation?
Roberto posted some demo code, but that's far from complete. Does Pycom plan to support the 100-node, 22km nano gateway featured in the KS?
Thanks!

I'm insterest too to do a very large network using LoRa (in this case LoPy), as gateway and client. So, I need to know if LoPy can be works as a complete LoRa gateway for others LoPy (as clients) and if are there some restriction. And, how many LoPy clients one LoPy gateway support.

Thanks.

[bmarkus]

@beyonlo said in LoPy as LoRaWAN Basestation?:

I'm insterest too to do a very large network using LoRa (in this case LoPy), as gateway and client. So, I need to know if LoPy can be works as a complete LoRa gateway for others LoPy (as clients) and if are there some restriction. And, how many LoPy clients one LoPy gateway support.

Thanks.

If you want to deploy a very large LoRa network, use LoRaWAN compatible gateways equipped with SX130x chips. You can get an indoor GW for cca. 200 EUR. LoPy is not soutable for LoRaWAN compatible GW.

Also for end devices LoPy in its current state doesn't work. Use a proven, certified module using e.g. RN2483 or similar.

Actually LoPy is not a matured solution. Hope it will be but it will take 6 mionths or so if ever will get documentation and a working LoRaWAN stack as I see.

[borjam]

@beyonlo said in LoPy as LoRaWAN Basestation?:

I'm insterest too to do a very large network using LoRa (in this case LoPy), as gateway and client. So, I need to know if LoPy can be works as a complete LoRa gateway for others LoPy (as clients) and if are there some restriction. And, how many LoPy clients one LoPy gateway support.

The problem is: LoRaWAN uses several channels and different coding rates which, crudely said, trade speed for range.

LoRaWAN nodes, when transmitting, must chose a channel at random (there are several of them). This makes it easier for different users to share the spectrum.

So, in order to build a real LoRaWAN gateway you need a receiver capable of listening to several channels simultaneously and decoding several coding schemes rather than being fixed on one.

The LoRa subsystem you need to to this is far more complex than the "node" oriented chip present in the LoPy (and other LoRa devices) which is configured for one channel and one coding rate. That's the reason why LoRaWAN gateways are much more expensive than end nodes with an average price of around 500 euro.

That said, you can still do LoRa, which means using the interesting transmission methods employed in LoRaWAN, but just not the whole protocol stack.

The number of devices you can support will depend on how often your nodes communicate with the nano gateway, how much data they send of course, and your coding rate which will depend on your intended range.

[bmarkus]

@borjam said in LoPy as LoRaWAN Basestation?:
That's the reason why LoRaWAN gateways are much more expensive than end nodes with an average price of around 500 euro.

A TELCO grade outdoor GW is costing cca. 1,000 EUR. Good news is that cheap professional indoor gateways are coming to the market in 2017Q1 thanks to the new Semtech SX1308 chip, you can expect them around 250-300 EUR.

Another solution to get a LoRaWAN concentrator board e.g. from IMST for cca. 150 EUR and connect it to a Raspberry Pi. It is just a board, so I would wait for the new indoor generation.

[daniel]

Dear all,

I am not able to offer a time frame for the LoRaWAN nano-gateway example and the documentation, as we are still working on the implementation. The example Roberto posted is for a raw LoRa nano-gateway.

The way the LoRaWAN nano-gateway works requires the node to only transmit on one channel, for this the LoRa stack needs to be modified a bit to make the 3 default channels the same and remove the rest. There's going to be a third mode on the LoRa class called NANO_GW. At first only joining via ABP will be supported on the nano-gateway so there will be a method to add the node and its keys.

Cheers,
Daniel